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Don Christenson

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December 22, 2024 10:42 pm

Woody Wood

December 22, 2024 10:09 pm

Dec 25th has nothing to do with Saturnalia. No one knows when Mithra was born, not a single source document exists that states Mithra's birthdate. Horus was also not born December 25th. Depending on... View MoreDec 25th has nothing to do with Saturnalia. No one knows when Mithra was born, not a single source document exists that states Mithra's birthdate. Horus was also not born December 25th. Depending on which calendar you use, he was either born Aug 24-28 or July 15th. Dionysus also has no record of being born on December 25th. Dionysus was either, depending on the story you believe, the result of sex between Zeus and a human princess, or between Zeus and his daughter. Definitely not a virgin birth. None at all. Dionysus only miracles were giving people wine, and not from water. He was never called King of Kings or Alpha and Omega, he's just the god of party or wine. He was ripped apart by the Titans, only his heart was left, which was made into a seed, put inside a new mother, so he was born again. But not exactly like the Bible. And even if it was, this account is after the Bible was written. Natalis Sol Invictus was on December 25th but we only know this from a 4th Century document, which we also know from 4th Century documents that Christmas was celebrated on December 25th. There is no way of knowing which one copied the other. We also don't really even know what the celebration was about. We know very little about it. Jewish people think a prophet dies on the day they were conceived. He died March 25th therefore born December 25th. Jesus being the perfect man, they thought had a perfect nine month gestation. This was calculated in the second century, in the 100s. When translating Hippolytus' Commentary on Daniel, written just after AD 200, Schmidt notes that five of the seven manuscripts contain December 25 as the date for Jesus' birth and another offers the 25th of either December or March. Clement of Alexandria (150-215) offers the date of March 25 as the date of the incarnation, that is the conception of Jesus, in his Stromata (1.21.145-146). Both works tie the idea that Jesus's death would have happened on the same day as his conception. --- This means that very close to Jesus' actual death there were records showing Dec 25th as the date of birth. There was no pagan religion that caused this. This is what they believed. I still think it is arrogant to assume people that were probably alive during Jesus' death, and the next generation, had no idea of the date of his death but somehow we, 2000 years later, know more than possible eyewitnesses knew. At least it must be agreed Dec 25th is NOT a pagan date. Dec 25th does NOT match any "gods" birth. There was NOT a festival on Dec 25th. This is all just misinformation passed along over and over. Saint Augustine (354-430) believed Dec 25th, as did the Christians in the 100s --- On the Trinity --- Translated by Arthur West Haddan --- Book IV --- Chapter 5 --- And not without reason is the number six understood to be put for a year in the building up of the body of the Lord, as a figure of which He said that He would raise up in three days the temple destroyed by the Jews. For they said, “Forty and six years was this temple in building.” And six times forty-six makes two hundred and seventy-six. And this number of days completes nine months and six days, which are reckoned, as it were, ten months for the travail of women; not because all come to the sixth day after the ninth month, but because the perfection itself of the body of the Lord is found to have been brought in so many days to the birth, as the authority of the church maintains upon the tradition of the elders. For He is believed to have been conceived on the 25th of March, upon which day also He suffered; so the womb of the Virgin, in which He was conceived, where no one of mortals was begotten, corresponds to the new grave in which He was buried, wherein was never man laid, neither before nor since. But He was born, according to tradition, upon December the 25th. If, then you reckon from that day to this you find two hundred and seventy-six days which is forty-six times six. And in this number of years the temple was built, because in that number of sixes the body of the Lord was perfected; which being destroyed by the suffering of death, He raised again on the third day. For “He spake this of the temple of His body,” as is declared by the most clear and solid testimony of the Gospel; where He said, “For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” If Christians were recognizing the birth of Christ at least by early 200s, does it make sense to think that this was a fourth century invention to sway the Roman populous over to Christianity? Christianity was gaining ground in the time of Clement, but it was by no means out from under the shadow of persecution. It also wasn't borrowing much from pagan customs at the time. So why believe they would do so for this date? St. Chrysostom, preaching at the end of the fourth century in Antioch, offers a contemporary account of the reasoning behind the choice of December 25 as the day for celebrating the birth of Christ. He is addressing people who disputed the necessity of the feast (as an innovation) and also the time of its celebration. --- He does not mention the effort to remove from the Roman calendar the pagan worship of the Sun, but lays out a very distinct biblical explanation. He starts with the time of the Census as mentioned in Luke 2:1-7 and points out that this was the first Census, which happened when Quirinius was governor of Syria. He also points out that whoever wants to know the exact time of the Census can freely search the ancient codices, which are kept in the public libraries of Rome, hinting that the time of the birth of Christ is easily verifiable from the public records. Chrysostom was a trained lawyer of the time with personal knowledge of government records. --- He then continues his argument from a biblical perspective, explaining the Jewish tradition of the censing of the Temple in Jerusalem by the high priest, who would enter the Holy of Holies only once a year (Hebrews 9:7; Lev 16:29-34) during the Feast of Tabernacles in September. He points to the Gospel of Luke 1:8-15, when Zacharias was selected to enter the Holy of Holies to offer incense (perhaps there was no high priest that year and the group of Levites, who were on duty at the time selected by lot, according to tradition, the priest who would make the offering in the place of the high priest). --- Zacharias entered the Holy of Holies to offer incense and there he had a vision of an angel of the Lord who announced to him the birth of his son, whom he was to call John. Soon after that, Elizabeth, his wife, became pregnant. --- Continuing with the biblical narrative, Chrysostom points out that six months later, the angel Gabriel appears to the Virgin Mary and announces to her that she will bear the Son of God and also reveals to her that her cousin Elizabeth is already in her sixth month of pregnancy (Luke 1:30-37). --- Chrysostom concludes that, Elizabeth became pregnant in the latter part of September (after the Feast of Tabernacles) and the Virgin Mary became pregnant six months later in the latter part of March. If we count nine months from that time we end up at the latter part of December, which is the time when Jesus was born. Hence, the celebration of Christmas on December 25 is justified. --- The fact is that we do not know the exact day of Christ’s birth, but the Christians of the fourth century, and earlier before the 100s, had calculated the time of his birth and concluded with December as the month. They were much closer to the original event and much closer to the people who had experienced it than any person of today. Their decision was biblically and historically based and it has to be closer to the real day than any modern guess. --- Chrysostom is silent about pagan celebrations in his Homily. He was comfortable that the season of his birth was the right one and December 25 seemed perfectly correct. Hence, for those who have been worried that they might be celebrating Christmas at the wrong time, please enjoy the joyful feast and find comfort in the fact that the Early Christians knew what they were doing when they decided that December 25 it is.

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Speedy Gonzalez

Complete rubbish from a distorted, tortured and twisted mind.

December 23, 2024

Ellis Blake

The day of conception used to be your birth date. Conceived around Dec 25 born in September. Zachariahs time at the temple gives a time line . Sheperds in the field. There are no Sheperds in the field much past September or October. Just like the new day begins at sundown . Not at midnight. They c... View More

December 23, 2024