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"Where Are The Dead?"by Pastor Arnold Murray (transcript) I think its neat that we do it again, and maybe tune it up and add some more to it. It's one of the most asked questions, “where are my loved ones after they die.” and it's made so clear and the Word of God is so specific on that subject. I think its sad that people are not totally familiar with it. Why? Well, for a very good reason, a Christian, one of his most important times to witness is when someone is hurting. If you have the answers whereby you can comfort someone by allowing them to know what kind of Father we have and where their loved ones are, then it's a great comfort. And certainly, if we have any compassion at all, we should want to help people, neighbors, friends, and so forth. It is a time that you can be of a comfort. And after all, that's what God's children are supposed to be to each other. Where are the dead? Are they out here in a hole in the ground. The answer is No they're not. Our Father is a God of the living, not the dead. Satan himself has already been sentenced to death but he's not dead. Spiritually dead, yes. So, it is a play on words that many people are confused by not understanding "figures of speech". So, we're going to start today, and in the next lecture, perhaps we will finish on the subject of “where are the dead”. I'm going to start in Luke Chapter. 23, and we're going to take verse 43 bear in mind what's happening here. Christ is on the cross, there are malefactors on each side of Him and one of them has said to the other "Stop ridiculing Him" or something to that effect. He's done nothing amiss, why would you ridicule this Just Man. In other words, he was convinced that Christ was the Son of God. What did Christ say to him? He says a great deal in one little verse. Verse 43 of chapter 23 and it reads, Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily (PM; truly, you can count on it) I say unto thee, To day (not tomorrow, not two thousand years from now, but to day) shalt thou be with Me in paradise. (What is the word "paradise"? it's heaven. It means "garden" quite frankly. There are many gardens of God. But what has Jesus said to this one? To day, not tomorrow, not in some hole in the ground. Today you're going to be with Me in Paradise. So, Christ again, He is the Saviour of living. Not dead. Wouldn't we really have some kind of a Christianity if we could say "Ah yes, you're going live in the ground like a warthog, well a warthog doesn't live in the ground. You're going live in the ground like a mole". You'll be there and isn't that a victory?” Well it's not a victory! It's terrible! The person, and you must make a note: Christ Himself is the Saviour of the living, not the dead. Alright? Now, what would Christ do when He said "Today"? He would go somewhere, where would He go? We're going to go to Ist Peter and we're gonna find out what He did even in the tomb. What happened to the people that died before Christ paid the price and before they could have repentance like we do today, except through the sacrifices of the daily oblations and so forth, that prescribed by the law to forgive sin. You couldn't be saved under the law hardly, you would have to be perfect, and only Christ Himself was perfect. So, where were those people then, where were the people that died from the beginning of time? And what did Christ do while He was yet in the tomb? We're gonna go to Ist Peter .We're gonna pick it up with Chapter. 3 and I'm going to begin reading with verse 18 . Listen to it carefully. With the thought in mind , with the question "Where are the dead?" 1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins (He was crucified one time. in His flesh body), the Just for the unjust, (He was the only perfect One) that he might bring us to God, (That He might bring us where? to a hole in the ground, to a ditch somewhere? No.) being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (Quicken means to be made alive in the spirit .What, that transfigured spiritual body. Flesh dies, yes, but man doesn't. man is a higher creature than flesh alone. Man has a better part to him than flesh, so. verse 19) 1 Peter 3:19 By which also (in other words 'by which what? By in the same spirit also) He went and preached unto the spirits in prison; (Well where was this prison? It was in paradise. You might say that part of the paradise that was shown in a parable in Luke chapter 16 concerning Lazerus and the rich man. Where the rich man could see across the gulf, he could see the Throne of God. He could see Abraham! He wasn't in a hole in the ground. But he couldn't cross to them. Why? He was in prison, held for judgement. He didn't make it. But, would it be fair, I want to pose a question for a minute. Would it be fair that God would judge Noah and everyone that had died since then. I'll back up even to Adam, except that they had the same opportunity that you have today, that Christ's Blood would pay for your sins If you repented and believed upon Him. The answer..No that wouldn't be fair at all. It would mean that everyone that died before the crucifixion would be kind of second class children. Because they would not have had the blessedness of having a Saviour as we do today. So, that's what's happening here. God is allowing Christ Himself even as He was in the tomb. Sometimes I'll use the cliché that while He was in the tomb that He was already knocking on Satan's door saying, "Let My people go." So, that's who He preached to. Now, you can't be dead consciously and be able to be taught and preached to. You can be spiritually dead and be preached to but consciously dead, no. So they weren't at the bottom of the river after the flood. They were not in some hole somewhere dug by man or whatever the case might be. There is a very simple reason. It is said, you have a flesh body but you still have another body. Don't forget it. Alright? So, He went to those that were in prison. That had not overcome and He preached to them. Verse 20) 1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient (We all are, we all fall short), when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (PM; Well there were eight "Adamic" souls. The subject matter of the book of Noah Genesis 6 was those, that is to say, the daughters of Adam. Then in that 6th Chapter he was told to take two of every soul aboard the ark. A another subject for another time. But Christ went to those that had died all the way back to the beginning. That's what this “figure of speech” means. And though they were saved by the blessed ark, they had the opportunity to be saved by Jesus Christ. The only begotten of the Living God and the God of the living. Not the dead. And they had the opportunity in believing upon Him to repent, and cross that gulf back onto the side of victory. And I'm drawing from the parable of the rich man and Lazerus in Luke 16. So you see we have a Very Fair God. Well, “is it written did any of them accept Him?” Well, let's continue on into chapter 4 of this great Book of Ist Peter. Let's pick it up at the 4th verse. Let's see if He was successful.) 1 Peter 4:4-5 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with [them] to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of [you]: 5 Who shall give account to Him that is ready to judge the quick ( that means the living) and the dead. ('Well, now you see right there were some of them dead'. No ,they were "spiritually" dead and I'll document that in this lecture. You, to give account concerning you. Now listen carefully) 1 Peter 4:6 For for this cause (for this reason) was the gospel preached also (underline also in your mind) to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit (PM; In other words, they had an opportunity to the same as we do in the flesh today. What were they preaching? The Gospel. The Good News. Christ died whereby we may repent and by believing upon Him, you can have eternal life. And many of them, I have no doubt, believed upon Him and crossed over that gulf. Which is simply to say, to pass from one side of paradise to the other. And it really upset some people because, to hear you say or to hear it explained, as Christ did in that 16th chapter of Luke. That Satan and his little children are in heaven but they're in bad shape. They are awaiting Judgment. Satan has a few other duties to do as Rev. 12:7 indicates. But the important thing that you know, God, your Father, your Heavenly Father is fair. He gave them opportunity, though they had passed from the flesh body even into the spiritual body, they had the opportunity to hear the truth, and they heard it from who? Directly from the mouth of the Saviour. While He was yet in the tomb, before His resurrection. Giving them the opportunity, the same opportunity that you have today even while you dwell in the flesh. Why would He do that? I can go one step deeper into fairness if you'd like? If as it is written, the elect, God's election were chosen before the foundation of this earth because they stood against Satan. Because they were chosen before the “Katabole” (in the Greek). The overthrow of Satan. Why? They were fighting against Satan. And as it is written in Romans chapter 8. They were justified and they were judged there. And foreordained to do the work of God in this age. Whereby God could nterfere in their lives to bring these Scriptures, quite frankly, to pass. God has servants. So, that if God, here's the question: If God chose the election while they were in spiritual bodies before they were ever born of woman, that is to say chosen before the foundations of this earth. When they had total recall. Wouldn't it be a little unfair to judge someone to death in the flesh? That's a good question to pose, especially when we see that He gave these that only knew what they had acquired in the flesh. Because they were born innocent not knowing the opportunity in a spiritual body to choose right from wrong. I'm sure, I am sure in my mind, that many of them chose the right path. Because at that time they were in the spiritual bodies. That's why we have the Millennium. Whereby again, they will be in spiritual bodies. And there will be preachings in the Millennium. Not second chance. It just that many people today, they don't have a chance, my friend. OK let's go to 1st Corinthians Chapter 15 Let's talk about the two bodies. I think it is important that you understand that we do have two bodies. Each person has two bodies and we're going to talk about that. Paul was asked about it and Paul , he was an excellent teacher. Chosen by God for his ability to teach therefore God, through him, would bring forth much of the New Testament. In Ist Corinthians chapter 15 concerning death, Paul himself was even taken to the third heaven. In the third person? Well, he would say I know not. But he was taken to paradise whereby he could see those that were present there. And now he tries to explain to you and answers the question. Let's just let him do it. Let's pick it up verse 35 of Ist Corinthians chapter 15 and it reads: I Corinthians 15:35 But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? (I mean you know, you don't have to stick around too long especially as a pastor until you see people relocated that were buried and so forth, or turned to ashes, or dirt and they're in a hole in the ground. There's not much there to raise up my friend. But yet, people will ask it and they are taught it. And it's a fair question. But you as a Christian should know the answer. Alright. Having asked the question.) I Corinthians 15:36-37 [Thou] fool, (or that's a foolish thing, or don't be a foolish one) that which thou sowest is not quickened, (I want you to understand that) except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, (that that you put in the ground) thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, (or naked grain) it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]: (In other words, when you plant, let's say a grain of corn. That grain of corn grew on a cob and it's a beautiful grain but it's dead. It has an embryo within it, the same as you have an inner man within you. But when you plant that grain, it isn't that grain that grows from the ground. It dies to feed the embryo the nutrients that it takes to give it it's start. But something far better grows from it. It's a very good analogy. Flesh must die before the spiritual man can step forth. Now, it is (this) not to say that flesh is not fit or a good thing, else our Father would not have created man in flesh. But flesh is a testing period. To test whether or not you will love God or Satan. So bear in mind, before, that flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. You have to be in the spiritual body before you can enter the kingdom of heaven. And let me say for those that might say “Well if that's the case, let's just jump over the cliff.” Well, don't be stupid. Because God sent us here with a purpose and a destiny. Some, God's election, and others, those that have free will to document that they do love him enough that they will absorb His Word and do as they are led. Ok verse 38. Same thought.) I Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased Him, and to every seed his own body. (In other words, everyone is different. If you don't think, even in the flesh we are different. We're certainly different in the flesh body. That's how you can be traced by your finger prints. We are all unique. We are all different. God created us different because it gave Him pleasure. He does not like to be lonely. Verse 39.) I Corinthians 15:39 All flesh [is] not the same flesh: but [there is] one [kind of] flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, [and] another of birds. (In other words there are different flesh that God created upon the earth and yes, the creatures will be in the millennium for we know the cow will graze with the bear. That the lamb will lie down with the lion. And the lion will eat the same substance that the other animals do. There will be no carnivores. Why? Because there will be no flesh left. In the bodies that they will reside in as well. Personably. In other words a living lion is not going to eat grass in the body he is in today. Let's put it that way. So what is he saying? If even the animals have different bodies,don't you think you do? Do you think you're not better than an animal. Verse 40.) I Corinthians 15:40 [There are] also celestial (that is to say, heavenly. You got that? There are heavenly bodies that's to say of people) bodies, and bodies terrestrial: (that is to say earthly bodies.) but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another. (In other words the flesh does not have the glory that the celestial body has, the heavenly body, your spiritual body. What does your flesh want? Your flesh causes you to do most of the sin that you perform. It's always nagging at ya, 'I'm hungry, I'm thirsty, I want this and I want that'. Lust and what have you. It's your flesh body that leads you astray most of the time. When you fail to cause the inner man to rise above the occasion to say “shut up and Listen to me, I'm in charge!” So you see, there are two bodies. And the flesh body is just a little lower. And the heavenly body is superior. You're more in control. It pleases me that our Father saw fit to allow Christ to offer the same salvation to all of those that died before the crucifixion back to day one. Of man in a flesh body. OK let's go to the next verse.41) I Corinthians 15:41 [There is] one glory (splendor) of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for [one] star differeth from [another] star in glory. (God's children are called the stars, His heavenly stars. Why? Well, I suppose if we were to have known the order of things in the first earth age we could understand that, but it is that they are called stars in the Book of Job where He says the sons of God being those stars that laughed and played and were the children of God. It is mentioned again in the Book of Revelation in chpt 12 where it stipulates that Satan drew a third of the stars with his tail. God's children. We're all different. That's what He is telling you here. God had a purpose for creating each one of us. In the way that He did. Why? It pleased Him. Verse 42) Ist Corinthians 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. (Listen carefully) It is sown in corruption; (That means in the Greek that it is sown in a body that perishes.) it is raised in incorruption: (In other words, the spiritual body is not something that will waste away. It is not perishable. Alright? The subject is the body. You got two. You got a flesh body that is going to deteriorate but you got a spiritual body that's not perishable. Flame wouldn't hurt it. Ice wouldn't hurt it. Age wouldn't hurt it. Verse 43) I Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; (In other words, flesh is always dishonor. That is to say, we all fall short.) it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness (and man is weak in the flesh); it is raised in power: (Power of God. This body is weak. It is susceptible to any disease that comes along most often if it is not immunized to various things. And that that is natural, by following God's laws. It's sickly. It's puny. It's weak compared to the power of our Father. Just the way it is. What we have to look forward to. Verse 44) Ist Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; (That means flesh. That means as you see yourself.) it is raised (This is how it is raised. The flesh is not coming out of the ground. Ok?) a spiritual body. There is a natural body, (You do have a flesh body) and there is a spiritual body. (You do have a spiritual body. There are two different bodies. The natural stays behind. Why? Why would you want it? It's sickly. It's weak. It's organic in as much as it's made from the soil and the food that sustains this body is the organic minerals, vitamins and so forth that we derived from eating organic material. And or organic material that has been eaten by an animal and then eating the flesh of that animal. There are two bodies. You got it? Verse 45). I Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam (That's "ha'Adam") was made a living soul; (Understand, he was made, created, formed a living soul.) the last Adam (That is to say Christ) [was made] a quickening spirit. (In other words, through Adam came sin into the world. Via Satan. Whereas by Christ He would have a quickening effect. That means to make alive in the Greek. Check it out in the Greek yourself in your Strong's. So that you have this down right. A quickening spirit is a life giving spirit. Not death giving spirit. A life giving spirit. Verse 46) I Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. (Why couldn't it be, he's asking that God could not have made us spiritual first, where you could see it. Well, in a sense if you're familiar with the first earth age He did. Why were we made natural then? Because of Satan's rebellion and the rebellion of the children that rebelled with him. It is written in Genesis chapter 6 verse 3 .That it grieved God that He had made man flesh also. Meaning, only in the first earth age only the mammoth, dinosaurs, that sort of thing was flesh. Man was not. He was in the spiritual body. But it was to prove and document, born innocent, whether they would love God or Satan. Who are you going to follow? Alright? Verse 47) I Corinthians 15:47 The first man (This word is Adam) [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.(Immanuel. God with us. The first man was formed. The second Adam, Christ. The life giving One. The Anointed One. Was from heaven in as much as He was the only begotten of God Himself. 48) 15:48 As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: (If you're in the flesh, you're gonna be earthy. Alright?) and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly. (Kinda, I could write so much into that. Not write it but pull it from it. Cause it is there. It's according to which of your men that you listen to. Your flesh. There's no gender in that. It applies to all. It's according to which you listen to. The earthly or the heavenly. You consist of both. Which do you listen to? Which one wins? Verse 49) 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, (Just as sure as you have lived in the flesh.) we shall (we maybe? No.) also bear the image of the heavenly. (As God would say "Let us make man in our image. He was speaking to the Elohim. That is to say, God and the angels. And each soul from that day was placed into that embryo. And would part the cervix and be born earthly. Innocent. And then Christ would come. Giving us salvation. Whereby we could see and have life, rather than death because of the sins that had committed. Each committed his image. If you have seen the Son you have seen the Father. Because Christ was begotten in the exact image of Almighty God. And quite frankly, you were beget in the same image, and why you became a living soul, when you entered the earth,is because you look just like you did there. Let us make man in our image. Plural. Verse 50) 15:50 Now this I say, (Or you can count on this) brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; (If that's all you got going for you friend, you're in a lot of trouble. There is no way you're going to inherit an eternal seat. If you're all in the earth.) neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. (In other words, there is no way that corruption can inherit a perfect body. Won't do it. Flesh is sin, carnal. The inner man is the better part of you. 51. Listen carefully.) 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; (Now do you want to understand the mystery?) We shall not all sleep, but we shall all (Now, does that say some of us? “Well, just the people of this denomination”. No, those that go to that---No, All! All, All) be changed, (We'll all be changed into a spiritual body. Why? We've all got one. We all have a spiritual body. We all have a flesh body. How does that happen? 52.) 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:(What is the last trump? There's seven of them. You figure it out for yourself. The Greek is very specific. The farthest one out. The seventh trump when Christ returns.) for the trumpet shall sound, (Not maybe, when it's time it'll HONK) and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (Hang on to this: Those that are spiritually dead shall be raised incorruptible and we shall be changed. They're are going to go into that spiritual body. But there's a little more to it. Listen to this. Many would say, ”Well I cannot handle that, the judgment hasn't been yet and they're raised in an incorruptible body?” You got it. Because, it's one or the other, friend. You can't go before God in the flesh unless He so Decrees, specially. Flesh and blood cannot enter His Presence. So you gotta be changed even to go there to be judged. Have you got it? Here will be your answer, verse 53.) 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, (That's to say, this corruptible body, this body that is flesh, it ages, it withers, must put on incorruption.) and this mortal (Uh-Oh What have we got here? Mortal, this mortal. You're talking about your soul now, not your body. This mortal soul.) [must] put on immortality. (Now I could trust you to check these out for yourself. The last time I taught this subject, I did. I'm not going to do it today. It's not that I don't trust you, but not everyone has the ability to have access to a Greek dictionary. So I'm going to do it for you. I want to take the word “corruptible”. Let's get, in other words, that's where your documentation is. Let's pull up the Greek word # 5349 and you see that it is "phthartos" It is from another word. It means "decayed". Implication, perishable. It's your flesh. And translated in the King James as corruptible. That's what, the flesh is perishable. It will decay and if you, unfortunately, and I hope you never have to, but if you've ever been in war and other places, you find out how quickly a body can decay. Alright? Now, speaking of the body, first to identify that corruptible has to do with the body, your spirit or your soul can never decay. Not actually, if we were to use it as an analogy ah, maybe so, speaking in a spiritual sense. But in the natural sense, no way friend! This body decays. Let's see what it is that it puts on. The word “incorruption”, it is your Greek word #816 . It is"aphtharsia". It means in the genitive sense ," unending existance, deathlessness", in other words, it's not perishable. It is eternal, immortal, meaning there is no beginning and there is no end to it. It is a body that will last you forever. So what have we learned? This corruptible, perishable, sickly body that ages with time will put on the spiritual body. Remember what Paul says? I don't want you to be ignorant of the fact that you have two bodies. We'll step out at the moment the flesh dies into that incorruptible, a body without end. Unless so God decides to end it. But what's this word mortal? I want you to know what it means as well, mortal. And it is the Greek word #2349 and it is "thnētos". It means "liable to die". That's all it is. Your soul is liable to die. Why? God is going to sentence it to death at the Great White Throne Judgment. Anytime you're still mortal, it simply means your liable to die. It's talking about your soul. So what is immortality? It's a word and even though it is Greek, many of you are used to. It's the Greek #110 "athanasia”. It's from a compound and has a negative particle. And it means "deathlessness". There's no death involved. Deathlessness. Eternal. So what did we find out? This flesh putrid, corruptible body must put on a body that has deathlessness to it. That is to say, a body that will last forever, it won't wear out. The knee joints wont get old. The hip bones, joints won't have to be replaced. The femur and the neck of the femur won't ever wear out. Quite frankly, because there will be no weight on it in the first place. But we are made in that image and don't worry, it will have a femur and there will have a neck to the femur. Um, the body parts will be the same, made in a different.. Well, I shouldn't say, I want to be careful there. We don't want to get into the gender sense. But, you understand, then yes, everyone will be raised in a spiritual body but those that are spiritually dead here, and I should probably use a different terminology but you're sharp enough to follow me. Those that are not in good standing with God, still have a mortal soul. Meaning a liable to die soul. Why? If they don't overcome they are going to die. So the mortal soul must put on immortality, athanasia, which is to say deathlessness. There you have it. You have the conditions of both the flesh and the spiritual body and you have the soul that is corrupted and you have the soul that has athanasia, which is to say, deathlessness. Ok I want to go two more verses and we'll conclude. Verse 54 in the same chapter) 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal (understand two different things, your body and your soul. When this body has put on corruption and this soul that is mortal, liable to die.) shall have put on (athanasia, which is to say deathlessness) immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.(We have that victory in Him. One more verse. 55) 15:55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory? (It has no victory. Because we overcome in Christ. It is so important that you understand that you have two bodies. Or you're never going to understand where the dead are. And it is secondly, you give yourself a second class God if He is a god of the dead instead of the living anyway. A god that can't give us a good quality of life eternal, is, it's not all powerful. HE IS all Powerful. And the instant this flesh dies, stepping from it, is that spiritual man and it returns to the Father that gave it. In the next lecture,we will document this beyond any shadow of a doubt. It's precious. Alright, Bless your hearts. Again I want to emphasize there's never a time when a Christian can be more helpful to a non-believer or even a believer who isn't well grounded or founded in God's Word, is at a traumatic time when someone has lost a loved one. To be able to document where they actually are, by using our Father's Word instead of traditions of men. It solidifies their mind into what really a loving God we have. That He is the God of the living and not the dead. What that really means ultimately is this: That only the flesh dies not the child. Only the flesh dies not your loved one. To be absent from this flesh body as it is written in the Book of Corinthians in 2nd Corinthians chapter 5 verse 7-8. To be absent from this body is to be present with the Lord. And that's exactly what it means. We're going to day to go into the scripture where some people get the Rapture Doctrine. We're going to go to 1st Thessalonians chapter 4. And we're going to draw from that Word exactly what Paul was talking about. Again, Paul himself as it was written in 2nd Corinthians, was taken to heaven in the third party while he stated "I don't know whether I was, speaking in the third party, whether in the flesh or whether in the spirit." Well, we know he was in the spirit or transfigured one or the other. That would be a possibility. But he observed what was happening there. So, it is very easy to document that our people our loved ones souls are not in the ground out here, like a post sticking in the ground. That when we're through with the flesh, we're through with it. We're going to document that today, and we're gonna come to with a word of wisdom from our Father. Let us draw from the fourth chapter of 1st Thessalonians, and let us see what Paul really said there. Alright? Actually the subject, rather than “rapture” is “where the dead are.” You'll find that out. Verse 13 of the 4th chapter 1st Thessalonians. And it reads: 1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep,(What is the subject? I don't want you to be ignorant about where the dead are. That is to say the dead flesh.) that ye sorrow not,(That you're not weeping, or you feel like they are planted in the ground.) even as others which have no hope.(That's to say, like heathen. God's people are supposed to understand and not be ignorant as to where those are that are dead. The topic of this lecture "Where are the dead." He's gonna tell you, verse 14.) 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, (If you think that He died and rose, and He is the author of our faith.) even so them also which sleep (That is to say, “Are dead.”) in Jesus will God bring with Him (Why? Because they are “already” with Him. If you believe that Jesus rose, then surely you believe they did. You're a believer. He conquered death. “O grave where is your victory?” You don't have any, as we found in 1st Corinthians. They're already gone. As Paul would stipulate, this same Paul, in 2nd Corinthians in 7 and 8. "To be absent from this body is to be present with the Lord." Surely as a Christian, if you believe Christ arose, surely you know that they have also. Even from Christ again, from His teachings in Luke chapter 16 in the parable of Lazerus and the rich man, they were both in paradise but there was a gulf between them. That's exactly how it is. You couldn't have a better picture of what paradise looks like. Ok? Uhm, what now has Paul stated, “I don't want you to be "ignorant" about where the dead are.” That, if you're a believer in Christ, you know that He rose from the tomb, or you wouldn't be a Christian. It would mean that the devil got Him. Well he didn't! And not only did the devil not conquer Him, He went to the people that the devil had deceived and freed them, if they chose to believe. Verse 15) 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, (What is he saying,'We say this to you by the Word of the Lord) that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. (We will not prevent those, we will not precede them,'Why?' They're already with Him. That's simple logic and a child could understand it. Verse 16: .. No, I'm not talking down to anyone. It's obvious if you use common sense. Verse 16)4:16) For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, (Which archangel? well,) and with the trump (Which archangel blows the trump?) of God: (naturally, that's the 7th trump, the last trump, the same trump we read of in 1st Corinthians 15 verse 52.) and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (Notice the colon, not a comma, different thought. Naturally, when the 7th trump sounds, let's pull the subject and the object together here. That's what you do when you read a simple thing as this. When the 7th trump sounds, when the 7th seal is exposed, when the 7th vial unfolds and is poured out, then Christ Himself, shall return to this earth at the 7th trump. And then in a wink of an eye, in a moment as Paul said in that 52nd verse of 1st Corinthians 15, “that mystery”. We will all be changed instantly at that time into the spiritual body BUT those that have preceded us are already there. They will rise first. Why? They are “ALREADY” there. This malarkey of people thinking that these old flesh bodies are gonna rise, is idiocy. All you have to do is look at the remains after it's been there 10 years and I don't know who would want it. When the beautiful body in spirit is with the Father and returning with Him. It's heathenistic teachings. Because that's what the heathen believe. So I guess, it's kind of your choice whether you want to be a heathen or I should say, believe as a heathen, or whether you want to be a Christian. That means a “Christ man”. Christ lives and He is the Saviour of the living and anyone that believes upon Him is certainly not dead. but with Him. Verse 17) 4:17 Then (after that 7th trump sounds. Take yourself to it. And everyone is changed, then) we which are alive [and] remain (We which are in the flesh, alive and remain) shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: (This is Greek #109 and it means "The breath of life". It means the "spiritual body". In other words, in that instant. At that last trump, we are changed into that spiritual body. This word is not “atmosphere”.You can't get “sky” out of it. Look at the Greek word 'aēr (ah-ayr') #109 in your Greek dictionary.) and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (Now, the word “clouds”, many people, they'll take a Strong's Concordance after they hear me make this statement, and say "I'm gonna see what these clouds are. "Well, it's clouds. He's using it as an analogy. A figure of speech. Paul spoke, Paul was Hebrew scholar. #1, You do realize that, don't you? In other words, all his study was done in the language of the Hebrews at the feet of Gamaliel One of the greatest teachers. And, uh but, Greek, he spoke colloquial Greek and also as Paul would move to a different area, naturally he would pick up slang and the colloquial expressions utilized by the people he was speaking to. Because he was a communicator. You do that. Um, a person that communicates with people today as you move about the country, there are certain people if you do not speak basically in their dialect of English, they're not going to talk to you. That is to say, you're not going to get or learn anything from them. Because you speak differently than they do and they're shy. So, you have to gear it down and get in their dialect and that's what Paul did cause he was a communicator. You will find record, listen closely, in Hebrews chpt 12 verse 1 where Paul says "We're going to gather in a “cloud” at the Olympics. Like at the Olympics. And this happened to be Greece, so that was the origin of the Olympics. He said “we're going to gather in a cloud and run a foot race.” Something doesn't jive does it? No, cause it's colloquial Greek. Or I like to call it “Street Greek.” What he was saying...haven't you ever heard the expression, "I saw a cloud of locusts." or There was a "covey of quail" that flew up, it was like a cloud of quail." Or a cloud of this or the other. We use it even today. And you've got these softies that will say, 'Yes, were going to gather in the clouds and fly around playing the harp in the Millennium. Right up there, just caught right up. I mean sucked out of here like with a vacuum hose. And float in the clouds of glory." Well now, stop and think a moment, Christ is returning “here” at the 7th trump. He's returning HERE. And He's establishing the Millennium temple as it is written. Why, if He's coming here, do you want to go there? I don't quite get that. Alright? We just finished a lecture in the book of Ezekiel where the last 8 chapters have to do with the Millennium and what people will be doing in that time. And they're not floating on clouds. They're working here on earth. It is strange that people do not stop, they do not think. Our Father is very natural and He does things in a natural way. He's Supernatural. Which means He's more natural than we are. All He's saying here, is that at the 7th trump we are all going to be changed into the spiritual bodies and there's going to be a large group of us, with Him. To do what? To do the work of the Millennium, as it is written. Verse 18) 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. (And they are comforting. When someone is in a heap of hurt and suffering because they lost a loved one. They didn't lose a loved one. It is the Truth of Christianity that we want to be with our Lord. And that's where they went. You didn't lose them. They are very much alive. It's just that they left this flesh body. It's amazing to me that people turn this message of where the dead from this 4th chapter of Thessalonians into what they have. Alright, but, be that as it may. As Paul says, “I don't want you to be ignorant.” But if some choose to be, hey, there's not very much we can do about it nor should we worry about it. It isn't their time. And apparently God does not want them yet.) “Where are the Dead?" Can we find other documentation, that will document from the Word of God where they are? I think so. Many, many places. We're only gonna touch on, just scratch the surface in this lecture. But it will get you started, OK? Now, what about the seals? I hope you're familiar with them. Anyone can count from 1-7. The seventh seal and the seventh trump are the same. But what happens back at the fifth seal? That's even before the false messiah appears on earth. What's going on then with them that are dead? Well let's read about it. Verse 9 of chapter 6 of the great Book of the unveiling, which is to say the great Book of Revelation. And it reads:6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, (Now, listen to me. The fifth seal, not the seventh. The fifth seal) I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: (Now that's not a complicated sentence. The structure is adequate. The translation is complete. It's not only transliterated. It says there, would it say as some teach: "I saw the souls in a hole in the ground. Buried down deep, planted under the pretty flowers, on Memorial Day. Yeah, there they were, right there under the tombstone in the grave. I saw 'em" It's not what it says. So why would you teach such nonsense? That they're underneath stone in the ground? The souls of those that had been slain, meaning that they had walked this earth, were under the altar of God. Not in some hole in the ground. Absolutely nailing home the Truth. Whereby, only the ignorant could not see what had transpired. Verse 10) 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, (They're even conscious. They can think. They have wisdom, what are they saying?) saying, How long, O Lord, Holy and True, dost Thou not Judge and avenge our blood (That means the blood that ran in the veins of a flesh body. That walked the earth.) on them that dwell on the earth? (Being on the earth, where the dastardly act took place. They can even communicate with the Father. Much as Jesus described in the parable of Lazerus and the rich man concerning Lazerus in the bosom of Abraham. Right there at the Throne. You can see it. No great mystery. Even a child can understand it. When you rip away the traditions of churchiosity and read the Word for what it states. We see that certainly they weren't in some hole in the ground. They weren't asleep. That's simply a play on the word “death”. It's better to say that the flesh is asleep than dead, because the soul that rested within it, is not dead. Alright? And then we find in verse 11) 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; (That means they overcame and that means they all possessed righteous acts. Because that's what weaves the linen). and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants (People just like them. That's what “fellowservants” mean.) also and their brethren, that should be killed as they [were], should be fulfilled. (Well, we're not going to be spiritually killed. We're going to have the victory. We're going to win against Satan. It is written, we have the victory . Different subject for a different time. Now, where are the dead? To me, I have great difficulty understanding how anyone could not understand, those few verses we just read in the sixth chapter. I really don't. It would be like you'd want to call God a liar, if you did not believe what we just read as to where the dead are. But, be that as it may, let's continue looking. While we're here, let's turn to the 19th chapter of this great Book of Revelation. Um, and here John is still being taken and an angelic being appears.. What really is, is a fellowservant in a spiritual angelic body. They're one and the same my friend. We all have one. It's just that in the flesh we can't see it. It's the inner man. Verse 10. This one appears and ole John jumps down and falls down at his feet. It would be just like, if you could understand how the angelic being felt. If you had passed on and one of your own children came up to you and fell down and started babbling in the dirt and praising and everything, how would you feel? You'd tell him to get up, right? And to worship God not you. Well listen what this 10th verse says) 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, (In other words, 'You're embarrassing me. Get up from there.) and of thy brethren (Of thy what? “Of thy brethren”. A brother is one born of the same womb. And in this particular case born from the womb that God created that souls should be born through on this earth. “Brethren”. Same kind, “fellowservants”. Same kind.) that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: (Not me. Worship God.) for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. (Want more, more proof? Where the dead are? Well this one was dead, flesh-wise. He was a brethren, he walked the earth. But yet he's in an angelic form. Spiritual body. What does the word “angel” mean? Messenger. All he's talking about is the testimony, the message of Jesus. That's what he is, a bearer of the message. Many of you are today. Or at least you want to. Let's go to chapter 22. The very last chapter of this great Book of Revelation. And ole John again, it seems like he learns a little slow. Because again, one of these fellowservants approach him again in the spiritual body and what happens? He falls down at his feet again. And this is what the entity stated in verse 9.) 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See [thou do it] not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, (Which prophet was it? It was one of them. Was it Isaiah, was it Jeremiah, was it Daniel, Micah, Amos? I don't know, it was one of them.) of thy brethren the prophets and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. (In other words, they were not in a hole in the ground! And don't ever let some uneducated, unlearned, heathen attitude, ignorance, I'll call it, teach you otherwise. Because God's Word makes it very clearly. I want us at this time to go to the Book of Ecclesiastes . We are doing pretty good, I feel. Making good time. I want you to understand a little bit about the Book of Ecclesiastes. It is a Book that is written by the preacher and the word "KOHELETH" in the Hebrew means the assembler or one that gathers. Call him preacher, alright? It's written to the man that walks under the sun, which is a Hebrew idiom. An idiom means, just like we would say "We're gonna raise cane tonight." Only that doesn't mean, we're gonna go out and sow some cane. It means "walk under the sun." a flesh body walking on the earth under the sun. Alright? And this Book , if you ever want to know how to keep your flesh body happy and how it should think and react, that's what the entire Book of Ecclesiastes is about. If you need the help of a teacher then order my tapes on the Book of Ecclesastes. But, in as much as it is, now catch the point, in as much as it is written to the man that walks under the sun, meaning "flesh body." He's going to tell you what happens to the flesh body after death. Listen to it. Chapter 9 of the great Book of Ecclesaistes, "KOHELETH" verse 3: 9:3 This [is] an evil among all [things] (In other words, there's one thing that's kinda bad) that are done under the sun, (And that means to those in the flesh body.) that [there is] one event unto all: (Whether you're a sinner or a saint. Whether you're rich or you're poor. Doesn't seem hardly right. But this one event happens to all.) yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness [is] in their heart while they live, (In other words, flesh kind of gets us in trouble.) and after that [they go] to the dead. (In other words, there's one thing everybody's gonna do, they're gonna die. They're gonna live in this flesh body, and they're gonna die. Whether you're rich or poor. Whether you're a sinner or a saint. He said that just seems kinda evil, that that happens to all. regardless of the fact. Well, it isn't really, because death isn't necessarily all that bad. But thank God that He gave us the instinct for survival. Because we have work to do here. But when we understand what happens to the soul, then we have a clear understanding of the fact. Verse 4) 9:4 For to him that is joined to all the living (Him that is still alive in the flesh and is a part of the human community.) there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion. (Now what is the lion? The lion is 'king of the jungle.' Boy, when he roars, everybody listens. A dog is really not rated as the king. But when the lion dies, his old flesh , as we learned in the last lecture, is gonna decay. Hey, it's gonna rot. It's gonna turn to dust. And the dog still has metabolism going through his system. The God creating all things as they are and that beautiful reproduction that is still therein. The senses, to be able to enjoy tastes and smells and feel and control. How great it is? So, in that case, what is he saying? The lion may be king of the jungle, but a dog is a lot better off than he is if he's dead. Because he's gonna rot away. But understand, you've got to separate again the two bodies. The spiritual body from the soul body. And some might say, "Well are you saying, the lion has a spiritual body?" Well, I guess so. Cause you'll find out written in the prophets, he's gonna lay down with the lamb in the eternity. Without hurting him, so yea, I suppose he does. But separated the fact that even the lions body is gonna rot in the dirt, alright? He's gonna turn back to dust. That is to say his flesh. Verse 5) 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: (That's just part of it friend, one thing for all.) but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. (Whew, man, that sounds tough doesn't it? Well you will not find a better proof that the flesh is forgotten. But it's not talking about really you. Your soul.) 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; (It's gone) neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun. (That is to say, here on earth in the flesh. That's the idiom. The flesh, I don't care, while you're here on earth other than having enjoyed the clean living of Biblical truth, you could have been the best soul winner in the world, your flesh is not gonna be any better off than anyone else's. It's gonna die. It's going to deteriorate. It's not going to be remembered. Why won't it be remembered? It's a hand full of dirt! Nothing. But the beautiful spiritual body, where is it? In good shape doing good. OK. Remembered? You bet! It's never forgotten in the first place to be remembered. God calls the child home. God loves His children. You will never find a better description. It's too... it is really sad that most people do not understand the idiom, the Hebrew idiom that Ecclesiastes is written to the man that walks under the sun. Because you will find happiness in this Book if you can understand it. It's the set of instructions, specifically that God sent to the flesh. That it might find peace of mind, while you're still in the flesh body. But know this, when we're through with it, it's gone forever. Never to receive a reward. You're going to receive your rewards in your spiritual body. And I would think that you would praise God for that. Because it's the body and soul that is athanasia. That is to say, deathlessness. Never to taste death again. The only thing about us that taste death is the flesh. Which is simply a domicile, an abode for us while we are in this earth. OK. Let's go a little further with this into actually, we know now what happens to the flesh. Man if a dead lion is sorrier than a dog, then we know that the flesh is not that much to hang onto and worry about. And really it isn't. It's a hand full of dirt. That's all it is. But separate the beautiful spirit and soul of yourself. Let us make man in our image. All that material was shaped into the image of your spiritual body. Ok chapter 12 verse 3. Talking about getting old and what happens to the flesh. May sound familiar to some of you.) 12:3 In the day when the keepers of the house shall tremble, (That is to say, when you get so old , your old knees start to tremble and your arms shake.) and the strong men shall bow themselves, (In other words, you get kind of stooped with age.) and the grinders cease because they are few, (In other words, your teeth are not what they aught to be. And kinda losing some of them.) and those that look out of the windows be darkened, (In other words, you try to see out and it looks a little darker than it used to. You can't see as well, getting old. Alright?) 12:4 And the doors shall be shut in the streets, (It means, when the teeth are gone.)when the sound of the grinding is low, (In other words, when you're gumming it, alright? You ain't got no teeth and you don't chew very loud. Just kind of a soft grind. You're old! So you lost them all now.) and he shall rise up at the voice of the bird,(Used to when you would get up when the rooster'd crow. Forget it.) and all the daughters of musick shall be brought low; (In other words, you're deaf. You can't hear the rooster crow. And you can't hear somebody sing. Verse 5) 12:5 Also [when] they shall be afraid of [that which is] high, (Afraid of falling.) and fears [shall be] in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, (This means, the gray hair is turning white.) and the grasshopper shall be a burden, (Can't hardly tote anything anymore. It's just so heavy and can't lift much.) and desire shall fail: (That is all your personal desire will kind of cease or slow down.) because man goeth to his long home, (Well, what's my long home? It's my mansion alright? My spiritual body. Long why? It's long lasting, it's guaranteed, it's permanent, it's fantastic. It doesn't get weak, it doesn't shake. It doesn't lose it's teeth, it doesn't turn white in the hair. It's something else!) and the mourners go about the streets: (I mean, “Boy, I mean we lost another one. We planted in the soil today.” Verse 6.) 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, (That's the cord of life.) or the golden bowl be broken, (That's all you are. A bunch of dirt. A little piece of pottery there.) or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, (Fountain of life.) or the wheel broken at the cistern. (These are all things of clay that, like we are. We are organic material. That is nothing but clay or the off product of clay. In other words, we got no, the silver cord , she snapped. God called that time. You're dead. What happens. Verse 7 .It answers the question , "Where are the dead?" Verse 7) 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: (That hand, how important is the flesh body? Why would it resurrect? Who wants it? You got a spiritual body. The dust returns to the earth as it was. God likes it that way. It grieved God in Genesis 6:3 that He made man flesh. Alright?) Then shall the dust shall return to the earth as it was. (It's not you anymore. You're not in it. It's dirt, it's dust, alright?) and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. (What is the spirit? The spirit is the intellect of your soul. So naturally it is your soul. Your living soul, not your dead soul. So what happens when the silver cord snaps? You die. The flesh goes back to the dirt from which it came. That's what it is. No more, no less. It can't think, it has senses, but it doesn't think. Your spirit is your intellect that does your thinking for you. And it is the intellect of your soul...I like to translate “self”. Regardless of whether you're in a flesh body or a spiritual body. Your spirit does your thinking for you. And as we define the various types of body. the one that is perishable. That does grow old, verses the body that never grows old .You know your documentation for that? Every time an angelic body is described in the Word of God, such as those that appeared to Mary Magdalena at the tomb. They're young! A young man appeared at the tree. Why? They're spirit bodies. Our young vivacious, good feeling spiritual bodies. You will have never felt so good or actually lived. God has blessings for us. God is a God of love. And uh, where are your loved ones? They're with Him. Don't ever let anyone rob you of the comfort of knowing they're in a better place then we are. They're happy. They're our loved ones. But do you know something? Don't be selfish. Don't be stingy with those that you love. Because you see God had them before you did. And He loves them also. And it is His ultimate plan that He has you with Him. He wants those with Him also. It's His right. They're His children. They belong to Him. And they are with Him. That is the purpose of Christianity. That we be with Him. So why would anyone in the name of Christianity, teach contrary to the Word of God, or take the subject of “where the dead are” and turn it into some kind of fly away doctrine ? Which will force you or lead you to worship the spurious messiah. When you have the beautiful Truth of God's Word, to allow it to flow over the buds of your mind. And to bring an understanding. Even as metabolism works in your flesh body, allow the wisdom of God to be the metabolism of your brain, spirit, intellect. I did not say that your flesh brain is your spirit, but that's kind of where it functions at, alright? And I suppose the main thing that I'm saying, and maybe I shouldn't be blunt about it. I should show more love than to say, it would seem that some people don't have much metabolism in their brain. It kinda gets choked off. And they begin to listen to traditions of men. And not think for themselves, because brother so n' so can do my thinking for me. He's in a better position to decide than I. You have to answer for yourself. I do not understand how somebody can be enough of a yoyo, that they would want to depend on an individual without checking them out. It's alright to listen to a man but hey friend, check him out with what your Father has to say. the hand full of dirt returns to the ground from which it came. I do not understand, it is not a godly or Christian practice to walk into a field, and pick up a hand full of dirt and say, “Oh, praise, God there I am. Oh God save it. Oh God save this dirt. Make something out of this dirt. Well, He already kind of did. It's you. And it's a part that you have to bear. And it's not all, and I hope that you came from what is written there, it wasn't really the best place to be. But a necessary place. For those that skipped it, that is to say the angels that refused it, that rather than being born of women, seduced them. They haven't got a prayer anyway. They're dead. So, where are the dead? They're with our Father. Some of them overcame and some did not. But they're still there to be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment. And that's, I don't believe that the beginning of the millennium is that far away. But what a comfort to know God's Word is True and Christ defeated death. For there is no sting when you can comfort people with the words as was illustrated in the 18th verse of the 4th chapter of Ist Thessalonians. Comfort each other with these words about the last trump and the fact that they are not in the ground. That they are with Him. That's what the chapter states. Hope you enjoyed it. Be a comfort to all that mourn. Would you do that?In His Service,Pastor Arnold Murray